### Puthoff-Constantine Debate

[The following was posted to alt.conspiracy -Doc]
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:04:37 -0400
From: CloudRider@aol.com
To: alex@directnet.com, Puthoff@aol.com
Subject: Re: Puthoff-Constantine Debate (A point of information.)

18 May 1996
To: Alex Constantine & Hal Puthoff
From: Dick Farley (cloudrider@aol.com)
Gentlemen:
Enjoying your repartee.
Just for the record, in 1993 Laurance S. Rockefeller pumped $10,000 into the Society for Scientific Exploration (SSE) to help keep their 'Journal' up and publishing. Whatever else it does, the 'Journal' give the mind-trekkers and SRI/Stanford alumnae a "refereed" vehicle for keeping the culture alive.

The amount was routed through the Human Potential Foundation, then chaired by U. S. Senator Claiborne Pell, who also is a board member of the Institute of Noetics, directed by ex-SRI guy, Dr. Willis Harmon. "HPF's" president is and was Cdr. C. B. "Scott" Jones, Jr., Ph. D., (USN-Ret.). The SSE donation was made at the request of Peter Sturrock, Ph. D., another veteran of the research in question. Another SSE board member is Dr. Jacques Vallee. Basically some of these fellows are trying to figure out what "these entities" are doing playing around with humanity from "camouflaged" repose in the "interstitial space" interpenetrating our consensus reality. By taking advantages of our limited sensate foci, and working "in league" with some guys who tossed their mental cookies upon "confrontations of their fixed realities" by irrefutable evidence that IT'S REAL, some of these entities are allegedly (according to some SSE members I have interviewed), making a "play" for Ma Earth.

Or maybe not.
Dr. P: Hope to make you acquaintance more directly sometime. There is the matter of an alleged "psi weapon" to discuss. And is the "peace movement" generalizing to the debate about how to deal with these non-physical interlopers in our dimension? That was to be the essential issue on the table when Jones and I were putting together the "When Cosmic Cultures Meet" meet, before Larry Rockefeller pulled Jones' fiscal plug and shifted his "Global Mind Change" initiative to Steve Greer and others.

Where do you come down in all of this? Are you guys ready yet to admit, "We goofed!" and come in from the cold to help us figure out how even to DISCUSS this stuff? That was supposed to be the purpose of a "UFO disclosure" initiative, which has been sidetracked and sandbagged to cover up other kinds of abuses masquerading as "UFOs," in areas of "black budgeting" excesses, human experimentation in "non-lethal warfighting", and of course, Andrijah Puharich's various warnings and fears, which although they derailed him severely, you guys apparently chose to disregard altogether...and now "The Nine" and whoever else is playing with the billionaire boys club's heads is off on their own adventure, having left you "real scientists" behind.

Hey, man. We've got the files....and none of this stuff is "classified," primarily because none of it was "real." But you know, and we know, it is INDEED "real." And as some of us have been fond of saying: "If it's real, it has a politics."

No kidding. Just ask John Mack, right? And Larry Rockefeller?

Just what we need: a global "viral" infection of our collective social mind and body politic by more "revealed truth" from the places where only guys like Terrence McKenna and John Lilly go to play. Free inquiry, free thought and "scientific exploration" are all just fine. It's just that some of us are a bit concerned that the guys who keep their "fingers on THE button" don't let themselves get too hoodwinked into "galactic peace" that they take their eyes off "the ball," (that'd be Earth?), and sell us all out to some indeterminant "non-human intelligences" and their earthside acolytes, dupes and self-dealers. Old story here, Hal. You'd better check in with Scott Jones and Jacques before you get too far afield, Doc. We've been a-waitin' fer ya, as we say out here in West Virginia...home of "alien nation" folk like Budd Hopkins, Gray Barker and Bob "W. Va. UFOs" Teets, also a Jones alumnus like my ol' self. We can do this the easy way, or you can keep up your charade. But we REALLY want to keep it clean.

With the release of the report on "Stargate," the National Command Authority has, essentially, tossed you guys and your powerful benefactors overboard. So now we're having a little fuss over control of "the bridge" on Spaceship Earth, as Bucky liked to call it. And the "CRV" veterans who take their oaths to our Constitution are apparently rather peeved at what they've been learning, since coming out of their "compartmented" lives to see what the "rest of the story" has been, i.e., some of the folks who've pursued what we'd better call "Applied Anomalous Phenomena," (translated to: "We do it to you!").

Looking forward to your reconsideration and perhaps finally deciding, "It's time." As Jacques has pointed out (to you guys, and to the public MANY times), these "entities" have a pattern of cycling their "involvements" along with societal perception from time to time. Only now, it's different. The "Big Boys" are going to "go for it," what with the Post-Cold War chaos and disorder that has them vulnerable to poaching and ruthlessly competitive folks in other financial venues who have LONG coveted the power and control of the Rockefellerian cabal and their friends on resource streams on which their power, and unfortunately, most of our society's underpinnings, are based.
Regards,
Dick Farley

Subj: Puthoff-Constantine Debate (From H. Puthoff to Alex C.)
Date: Fri, May 17, 1996 20:35 EDT
From: alex@directnet.com
X-From: alex@directnet.com (Alex Constantine)
To: CloudRider@aol.com

Alex,

As former Director of the SRI Cognitive Sciences Program at SRI (from 1972-1985), I can assure you that, in contradiction to your claims, no mind-control program was being pursued. Since your claim would appear to be a major theme in an upcoming book of yours on real or imagined CIA conspiracies, I have some doubt that you will be persuaded by the facts, but, being a stickler for historical accuracy, at least I will have put the truth on the record.

With regard to your reference to the Koslov briefing, if a briefer flashed a chart on his screen labeling SRI's work as "ELF and Mind Control," the briefer was clearly in error, and I would not blame Koslov from being upset.

Our project for the Navy, which is well known in published reports in IEEE and AAAS publications, was simply to see whether remote viewers attempting to focus on light flashes in a remote laboratory would register any specific signature in their EEG. The answer: we found some suggestive EEG correlations with the light flashes, but nothing very robust. (See, e.g., May, Targ and Puthoff, "EEG Correlates to Remote Light Flashes under Conditions of Sensory Shielding," in _Mind at Large: IEEE Symposia on the Nature of ESP_, ed. by Tart, Puthoff and Targ, Praeger, 1979, New York).

As you can see, your suggestion that the project involved "projecting words and images directly to the cranium" is pure fantasy, and the subjects for these experiments were close colleagues who excitedly volunteered for the task, not victims of mind-control experimentation as you claim.

With regard to the SRI remote viewing program in general, although you have characterized it in terms of "transmitting images to the brains of test subjects under the misnomer 'remote viewing'," the complete inaccuracy of your claim is now a matter of clear public record because of recent declassification. This includes articles written by myself and others responsible for the program in the current issue of the _Jour. of Scientific Exploration_, vol. #10, No. 1, Spring 1996, that provides detailed records of the purposes, protocols, sponsor-client relationships, and references to SRI reports now available through FOIA. And the public record now also includes a deluge of firsthand "insider" reports written by program remote viewers, both those in research roles and those in military intelligence. These not only make for fascinating reading but clearly document how far off the mark your speculations are, and how far behind the curve of public knowledge your book will be.

You also claim that EM mind-control machines were championed at SRI by Karl Pribram. As far as I am aware, Pribram never worked at SRI. (You may be confusing Stanford University, where he did have an appointment for a time, and SRI.)

By the time you get into claiming SRI-hatched conspiracies involving the SLA, Scientologists, the People's Temple and the Panthers, your bus has left me far behind. A certain class of reader will no doubt find your version much more exciting and believable than the mundane facts, so I have no illusions that you will backtrack to reality, but at least those of us who know, and others who bother to check, will know the difference.

H. E. Puthoff, Ph.D.
Fmr Director (1972-1985)
SRI Cognitive Sciences Program

To:Puthoff@aol.com
From:alex@directnet.com (Alex Constantine)
Subject:SRI & mind control

Harold:

Every one of the principals in the experimentation at SRI live in worlds of fantasy, yet you accuse me of the same. The latest to speak out in the mass media was Ed Dames, who claims there is a "time beacon" in Arizona that is signalling "aliens" as they pass through our space. This is the caliber of "scientist" to emerge from the "remote viewing" project, a clutch of seemingly addled confabulators talking about "alien" civilizations beaming Israeli messiahs, etc. And most of them with backgrounds in military intelligence and advanced technology. Tsk. How is one to reconcile the incongruity?

Why do you even bother to contradict what I've written when it is fully sourced?

The SLA was a product of SRI programming. I don't expect you to confirm this. On the contrary, I expect you to appeal to the "aliens" to fill you in. Perhaps you could apply your enhanced perceptions to confirming that I wrote honestly.

Your laser work is classified. What do those devices do? And now the Washington Post and a ranking military official have presumably got it wrong, and you're offering up corrections....

The only correction I take seriously regards Pribram, who was the head of the neruropsychology research Lab at Stanford. If I didn't say so before, I will state this in the future and make it clear in the copy under discussion.

As always, you splash a lot of hogwash around and fully expect that all of the people will believe you all of the time. Excuse me for poking holes in your inane cover stories.

Alex Constantine

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