## Jim Keith,Goes Fishin' for Gems

> Jim Keith is one of America's most respected conspiracy researchers. He has for many years been associated with
> IllumiNet Press a publishing house dedicated to conspiracy,
> ufo research, forteana and other gems.

> Rosie X caught up with Jim on the phone from Reno, Nevada.

> Jim tells the story
> "I'm 45 years old, I live in Reno Nevada.I've been interested in off trail stuff/conspiracy/ufos etc since the dawn of time really, at 7 yrs old I got interested in ufos and read most of the books on the subject. I got into occultism, metaphysics. All along I've been writing, over 30yrs now I guess. My first book The Gemstone File was published in 1992..."

> Cover art for The Gemstone File by James Koehnline

> RX: Is there anything which got you going as a kid to follow a career as a conspiracy researcher?

> JK: I haven't really thought about it. I sure know that reality isn't as cut and dried as people would have us/you believe. Also, my interests in occultism and metaphysics as a child pulled me in that direction. I always thought of the world more like the Twilight Zone than an American sitcom, let's say.

> RX: You were probably greatly influenced by Rod Serling, but I guess another possibility is that maybe you were abducted by a UFO (smiling)?

> JK: Well, in fact I did have an encounter with a grey alien one time (believe it or not) this was about 23 yrs ago. I woke up and had one of these little monsters staring me right in the face and it scared the wits out of me, but this was at a time when the media wasn't making hay with the whole big headed grey scenario, so it kinda makes me tend to believe this was a reality...However, my impression was (not to go on too much) that these characters are intra-dimensional, rather than from Pluto..

> RX: Is this true! Come on, you're pulling my leg! Its a teaser like some of the excerpts from the Gemstone File right?

> JK: No, its a true story...I sort of put it on the back burner of my mind for years and when I read Communion, there were certain details in the description of abductees and so forth, I went hey, that's exactly the way it was with me..kind of confirming t he obscure details about the experience.

> RX: The book was okay, but the film..

> JK: I rather liked the film..as I recall it had its moments

> RX: Can you run through your publications ?

> JK: Okay, the Gemstone File (1992), Secret and Suppressed (which I edited) (1993), Casebook on Alternative 3 (1994), Black Helicopters over America (1995). A thumb nail. The Gemstone File primarily centres around a secret (sort of secret) document which relates to the Kennedy assassination. The book Secret and Suppressed is an anthology of forbidden and heretical and suppressed documents. Casebook on Alt 3 deals with the Alt 3 scenario which was a British TV show which came out in 1975 and dealt with secret plans from the elitists to abandon an earth which they believed was caput from pollution and set up bases on the Moon and Mars. I believe that Alt3 was a British TV hoax but my thesis in the book is that even though all the details of Alt3 were bogus they parallel actual conspiracies that are going on in truth. My latest Black Helicopters Over America deals with this mysterious phenomena of black helicopters which have been seen all over America and often linked with mysterious troop movements and shipments of war material and strange things which are taking place in terms of a consolidation of the new world order. (needs link)

> RX: That's interesting. I am sure I was told about black helicopters being spotted in the Australian skies..

> JK: That's strange. I would have thought I would have heard of it. I have 300 different black helicopter sightings in my book, you would think I would have heard of it..

> RX: I imagine you have a very dependable network which links your interests with other people who share similar interests in conspiracy, ufos etc,.

> JK: It's amazing, there are really good researchers who don't have any inclination to publish. So I take advantage of a lot of good research work out there..

> RX: What groups do you tend to be affiliated with now?

> JK: Actual organised groups, I can't think of any of them. I am not really a card carrying member in any. In fact I have connections with what's called the Patriot Movement here in America, its very pro-constitution and anti new world order, I am connected with a lot of people with the anarchist movement a lot of people in the occult historical research field who spend time digging into the antiquities of occultism, and then I know new age people a large cross section of people, really..

> RX: Are you using the Internet?

> JK: I use it through other people..I don't have a modem yet and I am not set, up, but I have so many friends on the net who provide me with tons of information from the internet and bulletin boards.

> RX: Its a great way to disseminate information, do you think as a writer the more wide spread your work becomes (conspiracy etc) does it tend to validate your work...or increase interest

> JK: I am not sure what to say about that. I have put things out on BBS' but frankly it hasn't proved to be terrifically successful for me, there may be a lot of computer people who are fans of my work or some such, but I don't get a whole lot of input that way, generally I get a lot of feedback from people who read the books and respond to them..

> RX: Okay lets look more closely at your first book The Gemstone File, it reminded me of the Principia Discordia or another conspiracy twister, (the video) Tribulation 1999, the way it weaves and interconnects and there are layers of truth, disguised truths, or what I perceived as misinformation which may lead to some other level of looking at the subject.

> JK: You might have something there, I have never heard of the Principia Discordia comparison before, but there is something in what you are saying...that's relative to what I feel about the Gemstone Files, which is there is a good deal of material there which is probably factual and there is another layering which is probably hallucination or paranoia.

> RX: How do you describe the Gemstone Files to people who have never heard of them before?

> JK: The Gemstone Files were a conspiratorial document of (depending on who you listen to) roughly a thousand pages put together by a character named Bruce Roberts in the early 70s. He died and a skeleton key of The Gemstone File was made apparently by a woman called Stephanie Caruana. Now I've met Stephanie and I believe she probably put the skeleton key together, there are a number of other people who claim they did. What most people have seen is the skeleton key of about 30pages... however, that larger document varying on the version from 300-1,000 pages is actually floating around. I know of 3-4 people who have copies, however, for one reason or another I have not been able to pry a copy of the original Gemstone File out of them, nor have any other researchers who have done books on the subject; the primary reason being that people have set incredibly high dollar figures on copies of the Gemstone File and I think that most of these people who have the original are waiting for their ship to come in...and to get a big buck sale on their original file.

> RX: How rigorous is your research and how many sources do you go to, to verify material?

> JK: If I am not convinced something is true, or I don't have hard evidence then I admit I am speculating. In fact I think that's somewhat a rarity in the conspiracy field, because most people tend to make blind allegations, and know that people interested in conspiracy will accept these things. You can say just about anything and say it with enough intention then the majority of people in the conspiracy readership will buy into it; however if I don't have good hard data on it, I admit I am speculating. But in fact I believe speculation is a useful tool as well, a lot of this conspiracy material is hidden, and really the only way you can get further leads is through supposition or imagining what the answers might be.

> RX: Back to The Gemstone Files, and I'll cite [one] of them and you can tell me if [it is] bogus or not. Let's start in 1957, and I quote from the book, "Onassis carried out a carefully planned event: he has Howard Hughes kidnapped from his bungalow at the Beverly Hills Hotel, using Hughes's own men (Chester Davis etc) (sic) Hughes's men either quit, get fired or stay on in the new Onassis organisation. A few day later, Mayor Cannon of Nevada, arranges a fake marriage to Jean Peters to explain Hughes's sudden loss of interest in chasing movie stars. Hughes battered and brain damaged in the scuffle, is taken to the Emerald Isle Hotel in the Bahamas, where the entire top floor has been rented for the Hughes party, there he is shot full of heroin for thirty days, and later dragged off to a cell on Onassi's island Skorpios. Onassis now has a much larger power base in the US (including the Hughes empire) as well as control over VP Nixon] and other Hughes purchased politicians..L. Wayne Rector "Hughes" double since 1955, becomes "Hughes"...

> JK: Possibly true. There are a number of people who claim to be witnesses about that time, who say that something to that effect took place, however, their stories differ, but there is a very good chance Hughes was kidnapped. Whether it was by Onassis is anyone's guess.

> RX: Onassis was a major drug dealer?

> JK: Seems to be have been the case. In this book Project Seek which recently came out there was some pretty good corroborative evidence which details his drug dealing activities. In the Gemstone File I also mention other sinister Onassis dealings, for instance, he was connected with a lot of Nazis.

> RX: Jackie Kennedy spent a lot of time with Onassis before the assassination of JFK?

> JK: That's so. That can be confirmed through straight newspaper sources.

> RX: Are you intrigued by who killed JFK?

> JK: Sure, personally I have my odds on favourites as to who killed JFK, my favourite document (I go for the curious scenarios), like "Nomenclature of an Assassination Cabal," written by an associate of Jim Garrison..a Texas lawyer. The author of Nomenclature, maintains that J Edgar Hoover and Lyndon Johnston were at the top of a large action network called Permindex situated in Switzerland, and his details are so well corroborated that it really is my favourite take on the assassination. Hoover was a 33rd degree Mason, and I am quite interested in the Masonic connection to a lot of conspiracies.

> RX: Just don't ask me if my name is real okay?

> JK: Is it?

> RX: Yes.

> JK: Hmmmm.:)

> RX: What hermetic connections do you have?

> JK: Generally via the networks. At the moment I am reading "The Hermetic Tradition" by Evola and I have done a lot of research into the history of occultism and so forth..currently I am working on a book working title "Shape of the Beast" and its a conspiracy chronology focussing especially on occult conspiracy, going back to times that are pre-Egypt, so I have a passing familiarity with it, but on the other hand I'd be hard put to cook anything up in an alchemical beaker..

> RX: I hear you have been hanging out with Bill Barker..and having a beer or two?

> JK: Yep, we kinda met and we have been knocking back a few beers. A friend introduced us thinking we might have something in common, I guess they were right.:)

> RX: Bill's a great guy I love the Schwa stuff he's developed. I also like the fact that you can't differentiate the sex of the aliens, gender is such an issue generally isn't it. I like the fact though and I have noticed this over the years that there seems to be little sexism in the conspiracy field. A level playing field for men and women?

> JK: I would say that's true. I guess its got something to do with the fact you need a rarefied state of consciousness to even fool with this stuff...maybe your as paranoid as can be but you have to have an eye for the details and maybe that levels the pla ying field.

> RX: There are also a lot of crackpots in the conspiracy field to...

> JK: Virtually there's no other type..;)

> RX: The Illuminati?

> JK: Recently I've run into some really good background material by Adam Weishaupt the Weishaupt Illuminati back in the late 1700s, in the context of Jewish Messianic movements during that period, that would be the Frankists and prior to that the Shabbateans who followed Shabbatai Sevi if you study the Frankists and the Shabbateans you'll find the their philosophy is extraordinarily Illuminist, and has many New World Order tinges. If you study those areas it really puts perspective on where Weishaupt was coming from, it opens up a whole bucket of worms, and there are any number of other wild connections apart from those..

> RX: There are so many different threads of the Illuminati which one would you care to tackle?

> JK: Hmmm..Of course the masons and the Rosicrucians prior to that, my sense..is that the masons were really a refurbishing of the Rosicrucians, search for the source of other Rosicrucians connections and you get into some really curious backgrounds such as Sufism and Arabic influences, the Kabala of course. My belief is actually that the Kabala is a key to much of the writings and philosophy of what one would call the Illuminati. In fact, I think it very revelatory to realise the main book of the Kabala is called the Zohar (The Book of Light) ie. Illumination. I believe that really is a key to under standing where they are coming from. Another book which will fill you in on that or at least create some amazing speculation is "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and their work on the Messianic trends..and the Priory of Sion which may or may not be a factual secret society but if it doesn't exist it should cos it sure answers a lot of questions about the Illuminati.

> RX: Despite the extensive historical research you have obviously done, is the Illuminati a real group of people in the world today who pretty much control all economic and political power globally?

> JK: Yes. (very quiet)

> RX: Well, I've heard numbers range from 8-80, what sort of group are we looking at?

> JK: I've heard different speculations, Dr John Coleman's latest book, "Conspirator's Hierarchy: Committee of Three Hundred" placed the figure at that, although he didn't offer any proof to suggest this was true. He does however have a complete list of these 300 people but absolutely no proof they are actual members. I really don't know if Coleman is correct, Eustice Mullins on the other hand suggests there are 500 in the committee but by the same token he has no proof of that..

> RX: So who exactly have these people nominated to be on the list?

> JK: British aristocracy and International banking figures mainly...

> RX: Do you believe that also?

> JK: I think that's about right. I see a critical nexus in the history of these groups taking place around the 1500s where you see International bankers coming primarily from Venice and financing the political machinations of the British aristocracy, getting involved in a lot of inter-marriage and so forth..and taking up with a lot of these characters involved in home grown witchcraft..very much into the Templarian Baphomet type stuff. English society in the 1500s , 1600s and going into the 1700s was riddled with witchcraft and it looks to me to be a melding between these Kabalistic influences that primarily out of Venice, and that they linked up with the witches of England. This was after the Albigensian heresy where a million gnostics were killed.

> RX: I have heard things about the Illuminati, [such as] they are all men?

> JK: Hmmm. I am not sure about that. I couldn't tell you a single person in the Illuminati, however I do know that this kind of philosophical detail just permeates the attitude of the elite.

> RX: What I've been told about the Illuminati in America is that persons reside way above the President and make decisions which affect the whole country, something like 25 ranks above the Presidency...a form of social control or maybe social chaos which keeps people rich & maintains their power is the wide spread distribution of drugs..

> JK: I don't know about 25 levels above the President, I wouldn't say that its untrue but rather that it's loose and unverifiable..apparently a lot of these higher political figures are privy to knowledge and money obtained from drug smuggling, as to whet her there are 25 levels above I have no idea.

> RX: You don't like the Illuminati being referred to as a mystical or non-human new world order, I have heard plenty of times people say the Illuminati are aliens or controlled by aliens??

> JK: Its not that I don't like the reference, its just pure speculation..I was born in Missouri and the motto for that state is "show me" and that's pretty much how I feel. I don't like speculation for the sake of it, its a waste of time, talk is cheap, and I just don't have a taste for fantasising unconnected to real hard data.

> RX: What is agenda of the Illuminati?

> JK: The way it looks to me, it is a kind of return to Feudalism, to take the unwashed masses back to primitivism and for this noble clique of some hundred or thousand of individuals to lord it over the masses in some grander manner than they have been abl e to do in the past...also, apparently there are plans for a lot of population reduction..as is seen in publicly accessible political documents.

> RX: I think that's what I meant before about the Illuminati in America this wide spread drug abuse and addiction surely keeps the population under some sort of check or endeavours to wipe out minorities?

> JK: If its not true, I think the distribution of drugs would be an effective measure I don't know if its really aimed at minorities or not, but I do believe drugs are used the same way as religion, in that they soften up a population (in the same way as s ports do), soften them up and render them insensible and more prone to being pushed around.

> RX: Propaganda in many forms does that, look at the media? Any Illuminati connections there? What about Rupert Murdoch?

> JK: I wouldn't be half surprised. I am certain he rubs shoulders with a lot of the top elite, as to whether they're card carrying Illuminati and have a Rosie Cross ;) embroidered on their underwear, I am not sure about that. I think they are thick as thieves and their philosophy goes back to an Illuminist orientation. I am not sure how you actually become a member of the Illuminati, there are a lot of speculations about the Illuminati, the book I referred to before "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" talks about this overall battle plan of the elite to install a World King. A World King on the throne preceded from the lineage of King David, and that's seems to be the Masonic template as well, the restoration of the Temple and the enthroning of the Messiah.

> RX: I think things like cults also come and go like fashion. Scientology is huge in America now..

> JK: Scientology is huge. Weirdly enough I was a Scientologists for thirteen years although its not something I really trumpet about, I got out of Scientology about ten years ago..Not that you asked but I found it a useful and quite interesting but also insidious.

> RX: Aha then Jim you're the right person to ask, did Lisa Marie Presley marry Michael Jackson cos she was pressured from other Scientologists or she married him cos it was a step up for her in the cult?

> JK: My guess would be that was the case. I know Lisa Marie is a gung ho Scientologist. And I was an executive in Scientology for years and I know pretty well how they think and that would be an extraordinary coup for her, she would see it as a chance to convert thousands and thousands of people to Scientology.

> RX: Is all your cumulative research and your new book "Black Helicopters Over America" done with a real sense of disseminating information in the public interest?

> JK: If I didn't think so I wouldn't be working in this field..I really believe in the power of the pen and that the expose of these plans can really set them back. That's why I am working.

> RX: So why are some people who research this material getting killed for sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong and others get away with fairly wide and public distribution of sensitive material.

> JK: My take on that, is that some people are working in terms of generality that can and can't be believed but when you stumble into really sensitive areas like White Water (the Bill Clinton fiasco), for example this researcher Danny Casalero who was researching a lot of corruption associated with the Reagan Administration and apparently ran into too much sensitive material, he not only trod on their toes but also compromised their money flow. If you are working in terms of conspiratorial theory my sense of a lot of these guys is that they' rather get a laugh out of attempts to try and fathom their secrets.

> RX: Can you define conspiracy?

> JK: There is a fine line between paranoia and, as Robert Anton Wilson has said, 'there is no word in the English language for justified fear'.

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