## TALKING TO ED DAMES

### by Debby Stark

From: Don.Allen@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Dames Interview - 1/4
Date: 10 Aug 93 07:18:08 GMT
Organization: Paranet Information Service, Denver, CO (303) 431-8797

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NM MUFON NEWS
611 Lead SW, #918
Albuquerque, NM 87102
$12 yearly subscription for 12 issues.
Editor - Carolyn Duce-Ashe (505) 897-7075
Producer - Debby Stark (505) 242-6258
This interview is combined from issues #6 and #7, or June and July 1993.

For several weeks I had been getting antsy that we were writing so much about PSI TECH in Your Newsletter but not actually speaking to anyone from that organization. At last I decided that the best thing was to write to Ed Dames and ask him some questions since his business is located here in town. On the afternoon of May 20 I composed a letter and I finished it at 5:30. I went out to the mail boxes at my apartment complex and discovered that the mail was only just then being distributed; the replacement carrier was very late so my letter could leave with him. That should have been my first indication that Thursday had been exactly the right day to write that letter.

Why? Your editor, Carolyn, called around noon the next day to say she had heard from Mr. Dames in response to my letter and that rather than write back, he hoped we could get together for a chat. In a short time we arranged to meet on the following Monday, May 24.

The Interview and My Disclaimer

Carolyn and I asked if we could tape the conversation but Dames indicated that he preferred we didn't. As it turned out, there was so much noise from a live piano player and a fake waterfall in the Holiday Inn's lobby that taping wouldn't have worked. So instead I am relying on copious short-hand notes. Due to the wide-ranging nature of our conversation, I am breaking this report into at least two parts and two issues: The Big Event, and everything else.

I hope you have read Carolyn's PSI TECH report in the last two issues of Your Newsletter and in UFO magazine (Vol. 8, #3). If you have, you already have an inkling what the Big Event is all about. Basically, aliens are coming to (or actually may already be in) New Mexico. This isn't called The Land of Enchantment for nothing.

First, Dames warned us several times that while he was telling us what he and PSI TECH have observed, in the end "They" (the aliens) are in charge of everything. He said, "We think they're going to meet us more than half way, but they have their own agenda, it's stupid to second guess them." I understand that he mentioned to another researcher that if the Big Event hasn't happened by the end of August he's getting out of the UFO busi- ness. He reminded us that foremost he is a business man, and, while he has been interested in UFOs for a long time, business comes first now. He hinted that he might have an investor willing to pay for PSI TECH's UFO-oriented work, one who will allow the information to become public (which is why PSI TECH has kept the project in-house, so it won't become someone's proprietary information).

Also, Dames explained that PSI TECH is "action oriented," but, fortunately, "we keep getting the carrot," i.e., interesting things keep happening that have sustained the employees interest.

The Big Event: A Summary

There are two sites involved. Site One is somewhere near Chaco Canyon, a place of historic and prehistoric interest to many cultures. "They wanted us there," Dames said, "far from the meeting ground," i.e., Site Two, "they wanted to educate us." The implication for me was that "they" expect the spirituality associated with Chaco to instill a certain awe in humans, perhaps to help condition them. "It's a programmed approach... We need to understand what we're dealing with before they land... They're not going to land until we have a better understanding."

Dames is not doing this alone but has invited various researchers along to Site One. Also, apparently the Aliens are looking for a "special person." He didn't tell who this special person was, not even a hint other than that it wasn't who we might think. What special person do you think aliens would like to talk to?

He said we may not get "the hybrids" before August, but we will have an indication of a landing before the end of August. It will be a "vanguard colony" of perhaps 30.

Hybrids? you ask, your mind reeling.

Here's the story: Apparently some 150 million years ago the Martians were living comfortably on Mars. A large celestial object of some sort sideswiped the planet and sucked away part or all of the atmosphere. The Martians must have foreseen this disaster because they built shelters (pyramids), stocked them and moved in. Dames reminds us that pyramids have been seen on Mars. (See the work of Richard Hoagland.) The Martians, apparently hoping that the planet would regenerate its atmosphere over time, remained in their pyramid/hibernation chambers. They ate all the food and began to die; the population dwindled to 15%.

Then, "from out of the blue--or rather, out of the black" came space ships to rescue them. These were from what Dames said at the TREAT V conference they call "the Federation" because they are a federation of a dozen or so different interstellar traveling races. Unfortunately things when wrong. [Personal aside: I get the feeling this is more Kirk's Federation than Picard's...]

"It got messy..." Dames said, but then he warned us, "we're missing a lot of this, about 20%." For example, PSI TECH is uncertain how the Federation moved the Martians, whether it was through time (which they seem to be capable of now) or just waiting it out. He did say that they wanted to bring the survivors here, to Earth, but "somebody already had a plan for this planet," it was already somebody else's garden way back then...

Some of the adult Martians are still enchambered in a controlled environment, he said. Some are here on Earth; some are still back on Mars; and others are in a "goop" that sustains them and into which their wastes filter. Some of the Martians are upset about the gooped ones because they have been in the goop so long (150 million years?) that they've totally changed in the horrid conditions and can now only communicate telepathically. One can imagine; the remote viewers did not enjoy seeing this, it made some of them physically sick.

Here on earth, though, the gravity is hard on the Martians. While they can live with it, they are unable to reproduce. The rescuers have been making hybrids to save what they can. The adults, then, are Martians, but their children are hybrids. Dames foresees hybrids helping/working with humans and eventually returning to Mars to open the catacombs to see what their ancestors looked like.

So, "Mars is super important." The moon is used as a transit point, something like a parking garage. "The moon is where the hardware is kept."He suggested a closer study of videos taken of the moon's surface (like the ones a Japanese astronomer took of an object crossing the moon's face). At the TREAT Conference, when asked about greys, he mentioned that the moon was about the only place PSI TECH had seen them, in the "parking garages."

Site Two is apparently where the Federation is arranging the meeting with these Martians and hybrids, and it is also in New Mexico. When we asked, "Why here?" Dames pointed out the scientific laboratories located in the state. [In the June 18 "Albuquerque Journal", there was a headline about the suggested building of a laboratory to study the Mystery Disease. More scientific minds that could be turned to helping the Martians? Interesting...]

At the beginning of the interview, Dames gave us a little background about PSI TECH's remote viewing (RVing). Their targets are largely scientific and technological. For example, the US military has deep space platforms, a series of satellites, that watch for rocket launches. The office that controlled the DSPs asked PSI TECH to look into the "things" (upwards of five at a time) that were coming to Earth from _behind_ (i.e., outer space) past the DSPs. Dames also mentioned that there have been many UFO intrusions over military bases and nuclear weapons storage depots; the purpose: apparently keeping track of nuclear weapons. He has talked to military personnel off the record about this.

Our next questions involved, as might be expected, the Taos Hum. Had PSI TECH looked into it? Naturally! Dames told us that it seems to be caused by a device that is alien in nature. He suggested that rather than accoustical measuring devices, investigators should take magnetometers (to measure changes in magnetic fields). Devices that can be used locally (as opposed to those that measure large areas for big maps) are preferable. The sound seems to be at 17 hz. He mentioned modulated gravity fields and said they are generated by a solid device. He drew a quick sketch of it; it is underground. It's purpose? It appears to be a time beacon: a rounded triangular device with toruses on top. The toruses cause the hum, generating a pulse that heads out into space. Why? Time traveling aliens use it as a guide post. They sense the pulse of gravity it is creating. We failed to ask why it is so noticeable suddenly. Any guesses?

He mentioned that his mentor, Ingo Swann ("Everybody's Guide to Natural ESP") will have a new book out this July, "Nostradamus Factor". Another author he suggested we look for was Prof. James Deardorff. This scientist, Dames said, was right on, he "hit the nail on the head" in his thoughts and writings about alien subjects. Dames showed us photocopies of two Dear- dorff articles and I noted down the particulars for those who have access to a college library: "Journal of Radio Astronomy", 1986 (24) 94 - 101 and "Journal of the British Interplanetary Society", V40, 373-79 , 1987.

Since cattle mutilations are making big news now (at least in UFO interest circles), we asked about them. Dames said that PSI TECH has spot checked them. They have seen a small, remotely operated vehicle that jolts a subject cow with electricity, killing it. It takes samples, vaporizing them in the process. Why? The samples are "base-line bioassays", PSI TECH has foreseen nuclear plant accidents in Eastern Europe due to deteriorating plant conditions and poorly (or not) paid workers. He could (but didn't) tell us the exact part that will break in one plant. Thus, the bioassays from around the world are for before and after the radioactive accidents.

Hey, we said, if aliens know this is going to happen, why don't they stop it? Dames believes the aliens won't let us get into a nuclear war (again, they know where the weapons are), but as for accidents, well, they teach us something. (He has since mentioned that such trials/accidents give us an opportunity to develop Character; depending on an outside force to save us wouldn't do that.) (Star Trek's "non-interferrence" directive at work here.)

Green fireballs became a brief topic of conversation: They are artifacts of UFOs' movement through time, He showed us a drawing showing how it might happen. The sighting itself is like the sonic boom. The _sound isn't the jet, it's just an artifact. We catch sight of UFOs moving through time. Dames grinned and described what it was like to be in a UFO, for example watching Gulf Breezers on the lookout. A set of humans are on the beach on Wednesday, then there's a different bunch on Tuesday , and still a different group on Monday... To the humans the UFO may seem to move a bit but we see it only briefly, in three dimensions; that they're traveling through time faster than we are doesn't occur to us.

What's so interesting about Gulf Breeze? Aliens are mining potash/potas- sium destined for Mars. "They wave at us as they go back through time to get it."

How about Area 51? All the UFOs at Area 51 are actually made by humans. The Aurora-type crafts fascinate Dames (to this reporter he sounded proud of U.S. capabilities).

The government and UFOs. The implication was that the government does indeed have information on UFOs like pictures, but that the information has been gathered while in the process of looking at other things. Agencies have "collection priorities,"i.e., getting information about Iran or Cuba. While watching what's on the priority list , UFOs are seen and that... irrelevant information is put somewhere else.

MJ-12? Well, Project Blue Book ran out of leads to explain what was being seen, what was happening. At a high level, those in charge of security feared for their jobs. They realized that UFOs weren't Russian. They suspected that civilian scientists could have information they needed, but they couldn't ask out right (readers may recall Stanton Friedman explaining how various organizations hold their information close, only to discover that sharing it could have speeded things up, saved money, etc). So to lure out that private information, official-looking documents were made up, broken to the public and the reaction was monitored. MJ-12: Real documents, fake contents...

As for Ed Dames himself, he told us that when he was young he was fascinated by people like Ivan Sanderson. At that age, strange things would fascinate and attract him, "I couldn't figure it out." But "If you're not loosing sleep, you're not alive." Recently he mentioned that now he sees the majesty of the whole thing, "It's worth pursuing."

He appreciates groups like MUFON and others as well as serious, sincere re- searchers. He suggested that they might want to engage in good photoanalysis of the videos of odd things seen on the moon, since that capability is increasing. Perhaps the reader has seen the videos made by a Japanese astronomer.

In Your Reporter's Opinion..

This two-part article synopsizes what we talked about in that all-too-brief meeting. It was a lot of fun and I hope that Ed Dames remains in the field so we can do it again. As you may recall, he has said that if the Big Event (which should be the beginning of a series of events) hadn't happened by the end of August he was getting out of the UFO business.

But, as I've been asked, is he for real? I don't know. In my mind, though, he's got several things going for him:

Remote viewing is not a one-person-only phenomenon (i.e:, Ramtha et al). See Ingo Swann's book; or look into what John Alexander and others are doing.

Skilled remote viewers, to my way of thinking, must learn to know _what being right feels like_, even when what they're looking at can't be easily verified (such as what happened to the Russian probe of Mars). PSITECH guarantees certain amounts of its work 100%, money back. That impresses me.

Dames also moved here to be closer to The Big Event. Moving ones entire household and business is not simple, and certainly business was easier to conduct in Maryland, nearer the centers of power, than it is out here in the desert, as great a place to live as this is.

And, maybe the biggest factor in my mind, for all this UFO and other fasci- nating information , Ed Dames hasn't asked us for any money. True, we've given him a lot of free publicity, but if The Big Event fizzles out..

I hope it doesn't. Seeing paradigms change for the better in my own life time would be great.

** End **

-- Don Allen - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Don.Allen@paranet.FIDONET.ORG

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