## CKLN-FM Mind Control Series -- Part 14

# Peter Tooey Interview

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This next segment is part of CBC-CBQ radio Thunder Bay coverage of the Making Up For Lost Time, conference/workshop series dealing with ritual abuse that took place in 1994-95. We are going to hear a response to the allegations of Masonic ritual abuse by Peter Tooey, a retired police officer and Mason living in the Thunder Bay area. I would like to thank CBC-CBQ radio and producer Don Edwards for allowing us to include this coverage in our series. You are listening to CKLN 88.l

DON EDWARDS, CBC-CBQ RADIO

Joining me now in the studio is Peter Tooey. He is an active member of the Masonic Order here in Thunder Bay. Mr. Tooey, welcome to the program. You have just heard the interview we ran, and I am sure you heard about the conference on in Thunder Bay. How much credence do you give these allegations of ritual abuse by Masons?

Peter Tooney:

None whatsoever. If I can explain, Gerald. The funds that were put forward by the Ministry of the NDP government was for a workshop on ritual and sexual abuse. There has been a lady within the organization locally that is sponsoring this so-called function, and all the more luck to them. I have no objection to that. In fact, if we could have any input into it, we would be happy to. But the fact that she has now mentioned an organization, namely the Masons, and accused them of a horrendous crime I think is totally irresponsible. And I think there is an onus on The Stone Angels now to have this person come forward and substantiate the claim, okay? Failing to do that, it is a total irresponsible, spontaneous utterance by this lady, and I am talking about Lynne Moss-Sharman.

Don Edwards:

What are you going to do about it?

Peter Tooney:

I am trying to counter it by talking to people such as yourself. We are not backing off in any way. If someone wants to talk about the Masonic Order, I am here to discuss that.

Don Edwards:

Well you know, I want to talk to you a little bit about the Masonic Order. When listening to Dr. Kent a minute ago, he said it was possible that Masons "might", he said "might" because of the cases he has investigated over the years, "might" be involved in this without any support from the Masonic Order itself. Do you see that as a possibility?

Peter Tooney:

No. I can take even an article in The Toronto Star on January 9th, if I can. This is an article by Donna Laframboise. She is a freelance reporter with that organization and her bottom line says that a study released last fall by the National Centre on Child Abuse and Neglect in the United States had examined nearly 12,000 allegations of satanic ritual abuse and found not one could be substantiated. This was funded by government money, just two weeks prior to this thing. Now the government, this is the NDP government, has given another $15,000 to fund another organization and this same lady's bottom line is saying, "so tell me how do I get $15,000 government money to hold a conference about something that doesn't exist?"

Don Edwards:

Well Mr. Tooey, what's the bottom line here? Why are so many people accusing the Masons of this? Where is this coming from? Out of the thin air? I mean, there are a lot of accusations not only in this province, but as we have just heard, in Alberta as well. What's happening?

Peter Tooney:

What you heard from Dr. Kent was that he has received reports, none of them have been substantiated, and he is the first to indicate this. It was indicated by him in his news release to the Chronicle Journal.

Don Edwards:

But why do you think you are the target? I mean it isn't the Lions Club, the Rotary Club, Elks Club -- why the Masons?

Peter Tooney:

There is and always has been, an anti-Masonic movement. In fact one time in the United States there was an anti-Masonic party. This has gone by the board. I don't know. I can't speak for those people. I can speak for myself, as a Mason, and by no means am I giving the official word of the Grand Lodge of Canada or the Province of Ontario, or of the eight Lodges in the city. I can tell you what Masonry is about. I can tell you that they and the organizations that are involved with them donate over $540,000 MILLION DOLLARS to charitable organizations. That comes out to about l.4 MILLION DOLLARS A DAY and they fund things such as RESEARCH INTO SCHIZOPHRENIA, to autistic children, to the Shrine Hospitals, to the Sick Children's Hospital, the help fund, Hearing for Every Living Person. They give upwards of I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of dollars for bursaries to university students, for Masons and non-Masons.

Don Edwards:

Mr. Tooey, do you think it would be useful for the Masons to look into this at all, or simply just to dismiss it?

Peter Tooney:

The Masons are totally aware of this. It has been discussed at the Grand Lodge Hearings. I will tell you one thing. Masonry is a private organization, such as the Elks, such as any fraternity within the city. It is not a religious order. It's main principles are to make good people better, okay? It doesn't profess to be a religion, although they have ministers, they have people from every walk of life who belong to it. Throughout the world, there are 6 million Masons which if you take the world population, is a very minority.

Don Edwards:

I guess for a lot of people, there is a sense of secrecy about this group, that perhaps they are not as well known as the Lion's Club, they are not as open perhaps as again to use an example the Lion's ... how would you react to that?

Peter Tooney:

I don't know why you would say that. The Masonic buildings in Thunder Bay, as in any other city, are recognized by the Grand Lodge of Canada and the Province of Ontario ... they are well marked. You mentioned the Legion. There is the Ortona Legion on Dease Street, which I am a member of. There is also the Masonic Lodge or Temple on Dease Street.

Don Edwards:

Okay, can anybody join the Masons, let's put it that way ...

Peter Tooney:

If you have strong moral beliefs, if you believe in the Supreme Being, you could apply to join the Masons. One of the requisites is that you must be 21 years of age, have good moral character. The only person I would say who can't join the Masons, is an atheist because he doesn't believe in the Supreme Being or God. It does not restrict membership on any basis of race, colour or creed, or religion. So any religion, any race, any colour.

Don Edwards:

What sort of screening process are people put through when they do join?

Peter Tooney:

Masonry in the first place does not pursue members. The person who joins the Masonic Order must ask for an application and volunteer to join. When they file their application, it is put before the Lodge, and it's gotta be sponsored by two members. They have a Character Committee that interviews not only the Mason, but also the Mason's Family because it is not in our realm to take food off the table, or to cause dissension within the family. What we want to know, not only from the Mason, is he able to join, can he afford it, is his family behind him on this? If his spouse or members of the family are a little upset, we try and urge the person to reconsider and down the road, if things change, then we would be glad to see him come again. It's not within our realm to cause dissension within that family union.

Don Edwards:

Mr. Tooey, do you feel personally attacked in any way about what has happened? How do you respond personally to this?

Peter Tooney:

Personally, when I read the article, I was appalled. And I am speaking not only as a Mason, but as a citizen of Thunder Bay. And I base this on a few principles. Namely if a parent hears a complaint from a child, they are bound to listen to that child and believe it, because that's within the family unit. If a person goes to a therapist and lays a complaint, the therapist has an obligation to believe that person and that's the only way they can get to the bottom of it. I have no objections with these things at all. And this is what this conference should have been all about. But when a person in a responsible position comes out and makes a public statement, accusing an organization of this alleged abuse that she suffered, then I think it is irresponsible on her part if she does not come forward and substantiate that. And failing to do it, I think should result in one of two things. She should be asked to retract it, or she should be asked to step down, particularly because the funding for this conference comes from public money.

Don Edwards:

Mr. Tooey. Thanks for joining us this morning.

Peter Tooney:

My pleasure.

Kathy Alex:

....creating a controversy in Thunder Bay. A professor at the University of Alberta is to lead a discussion on ritual torture by Masons. Survivors of abuse can attend, so can social workers. But one Mason who wanted to attend has been told the meeting is closed to him, and other Masons. Shane Judge reports:

Shane Judge CBQ:

The four day long workshop begins Wednesday. It is put on by a group calling itself The Stone Angels. Lynne Moss-Sharman speaks for the group. She says there are sixty people in Thunder Bay who say as children they were victims of organized, repeated physical and sexual abuse by adults. They say this abuse took place within the context of a ceremony that had a religious, magical or supernatural connotation. Peter Tooey doesn't have a problem with a government grant going to The Stone Angels to study ritual abuse, but the retired police officer and active Mason says he is upset he can't hear what will be said about Masonic ritual torture, especially after Moss-Sharman has said publicly there are victims in Thunder Bay.

Peter Tooney:

I am upset that an organization, namely the Masonic organization, has been smeared by this lady and as a result I feel we should have recourse to address people at that meeting, and to see if this unsubstantiated complaint if there is anything to it.

Shane Judge:

Moss-Sharman says there is nothing wrong with taxpayers money being used to hold a closed meeting. She says it is done to protect the safety and confidentiality of the survivors:

Lynne Moss-Sharman:

I find it really ironic, and in some ways I guess, amusing, that a white male secret society would kick up such a media fuss about not being allowed into a meeting or a gathering because no one is allowed to go their meetings, or their rituals ...

Shane Judge:

Moss-Sharman says Tooey can find out all he wants from the professor on his own before or after the workshop. He (Dr. Stephen Kent) will be speaking Friday night.

Shane Judge, CBC News Thunder Bay

Wayne Morris:

No you are not listening to CBC. This is CKLN 88.1 and we just heard an interview done by CBC in Thunder Bay with Peter Tooey, a retired policeman and Mason, speaking to the allegations of ritual abuse against Freemasons.

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