# Walter Bowart Interviewed

by "The Probe"

Winter 98/99

Interview conducted by Marc Sova in Carbondale, IL during a presentation given by Walter Bowart at Southern Illinois University in June, 1998. Bowart has been an outspoken authority on the subject of covert operations involving mind control. His 1978 book , Operation Mind Control was one of the first of its kind describing the scope of government operations like MK ULTRA.

PROBE: In our 1978 book, Operation Mind Control, you brought up many projects related to mind control: ARTICHOKE, MK ULTRA, MK DELTA. What can you tell us about the projects going on today?

BOWART: Well, there’s a whole movement called cognitive science, it’s an interdisciplinary study that’s funded by the government, so anybody licensed by the state is not going to criticize the state. So you won’t find - well, you find euphemisms. As far as the public literature goes, you won’t come across the words, "mind control", you’ll find things like "loss of free will" and things like that. Also, if you go to your university library, look at the section called Biocybernetics. They’ve got every frequency of everything that works in the human body and brain measured and codified, cross-indexed. We are going into a cybernetic age. So mind control, for me the word means the control of a person’s mind by somebody else against that person’s will, without their knowledge. It’s way beyond that.

Francis Crick wrote a book, and he’s part of this cybernetics cognitive science movement, called the Astonishing Hypothesis, in which he spends a whole chapter trying to argue that the soul resides in a specific part of the brain.

Here’s a guy who won the Nobel prize and now he’s looking for the soul in the brain.

PROBE: What do you believe the scope of mind control has grown into today?

How has this happened and why?

BOWART: If you go back to the sixties, ‘62 I think it was when Jose Delgado addressed Congress, it’s in the Congressional Record, you’ll find that he called for a "psycho-civilized society." Delgado extolled the virtues of not having to worry about how many home runs Hank Aaron hit because your brain is going to be plugged straight in like a Johnny Pneumonic to the computer by some remote interlink where you’ll think, "how many home runs?" and bingo!, the answer will be there. Delgado also said, "Wouldn’t it be wonderful if nobody had to set an alarm clock? We’ll just set the signal generator at a certain time, and everybody will get up and go to work at the same time. When highways get too crowded, we’ll just stagger the timing a little bit."

If you look at the New World Order concept, which is basically an international conglomerate, you begin to see that human beings become a resource of some machine. That’s the way they think; these international conglomerates are not loyal to a nation or a people. That’s the future and it’s up to the human spirit, and it looks to me like the general population is dulled down.

PROBE: All that fluoride!

BOWART: (chuckles) Well, it’s probably a lot of things... It is probably

HAARP first of all. El Nino - the ocean is a mirror of the ionosphere. What above, so below, and they work together and they heat up the atmosphere just like the ocean.

PROBE: Considering the number of lone nut shootings we’ve had over the years by people, even children, do you think mind control operations have had any role in that? If so, give some specifics and any evidence you feel is pertinent.

BOWART: Absolutely. I know two cases. I followed one for ... actually I’m still following it. I’m working on a screenplay in fact. A guy named Robert Moody killed two women at random, but he killed them the way the Navy Seals trained him. Shot like the Mossad and like the CIA and the Mafia would do it [Bowart gestures with his finger under his jawline at an angle]. He tied their arms up. A fellow named Colin Ferguson shot up a bunch of fellow railroad workers, killed six of them. He was allowed to represent himself and he’s just bananas. He claimed that the 93 indictments against him were because it was the year 1993 and that if it were 1920, there would be only twenty. So you have a constitutional right in this country to be nuts, but there’s no protections, they don’t recognize multiple personalities, actually. Dissociative Identity Disorder is what it’s called and it is the most common thing in this country in these types of cases. I am working on a book right now called The Dissociated State that deals with these issues.

PROBE: What about these cases involving school children like what recently happened in Arkansas?

BOWART: This is a perfect example of a dissociative. Think about it: if you take a human life, you’re not associated, you’re not a-sociated. You don’t identify with that other human being. You’ve lost your own humanity. Any murderer, at the time of the murder, is dissociated from their own humanity. It can come from any number of things, watching television for instance. An easy way of understanding the concept of "dissociative" is like when you’re absorbed in a television show, or your writing, or artwork, or whatever it is that you love to do. Then somebody surprises you with a tap on the shoulder. You literally jump out of your skin. That’s dissociative, but a normal dissociation though. Murderers are generally extremely dissociative. There was just a study done on a group of people on death row. More than ten percent were diagnosed with multiple personality disorder.

PROBE: In your book, you bring up the prospect of mind control being used by a man named Ala Hudin to condition young assassins in the year 1298. The report from Marco Polo and his visit to the valley Of Alamut in Old Persia describes this in more detail. Do you think the media today is creating something similar to what Ala Hudin created in that valley?

BOWART: Well , I don’t think you can blame it on anyone’s intention in the media, but it’s inherent. Marshal McLahan has written a lot about this in a book called War and Peace in the Global Village that gives you a little insight into what we’re heading for. As we extend our senses over the internet, sending sight and sound at the speed of light, you feel obsolete. Your body becomes obsolete and anything that is obsolete becomes an artform. So now we have all this tattooing and body piercing because of this notion of obsolescence.

PROBE: Have you heard of Bob Fletcher and the allegations he has made about a mind control project called Commando Solo ?

BOWART: No, I have not, but just skimming through his story in the back issue of "The PROBE" you gave me, it’s good to be able to add another name to the list of people looking into this stuff. I have heard of various forms of some things like that, not Commando Solo, but of high tech type of weaponry being developed, and tracking devices. They have a satellite technology now that can track you from space based on a thermal imprint of the capillary system in the head. The capillary system in your head doesn’t change from birth to death and every person’s is unique.

PROBE: Like a thermal fingerprint?

BOWART: Yes. They can track you through the roof of your car, based of

course on the ambient temperature and climate. I would like to say though that I’ve read Jim Keith’s book, Encyclopedia of Mind Control, which Adventures Unlimited publishes and I feel that it’s a good anthology of his thoughts on this thoroughly exhaustive subject. I was really expecting to read some light-weight stuff, but he has some really original thoughts, and I think he’s to be commended.

PROBE: In your book, you’ve researched a few early victims of mind control experiments like Colonel George Denald, who committed suicide, and General William Chaffin, who was one of thousands used in LSD and other experiments in the late fifties. What have you discovered about the current state of the art? What do they do to these unwitting volunteers today?

BOWART: Well, drugs. We wouldn’t have had the psychedelic sixties had it not been for the CIA. When I queried Timothy Leary on his involvement with that [CIA] he basically said, "Well, who would you have me work for, the Yankees or the Dodgers?" meaning of course the CIA or the KGB. In essence, he never admitted to working for them but he also never denied it. I am aware of a few cases from back when there were people who were given large doses of stuff they thought was LSD, but was in act much more potent, and to this day they’ve never come out of it and are still confined. The state of the art now is on this level. The cytoskeleton, specifically microtubials in the cytoskeleton of the DNA are programmable. If you take the double helix and look at the end of it, you’ll see what looks like kernels of corn and if you enlarge them you’ll see what looks like a yin-yang and one side is a "one" and the other a "zero." can be turned off and on. So you could potentially programmed to be, say, a dolphin! But as far as the code names and all that stuff, we still have the National Security Act and until we repeal that we’re not going to have an open and free society. We can’t go and find what the state of the art is in a specific aspect. You can find out what the state of the art was, say, forty years ago. Back to Francis Crick’s search for the soul, Rupert Sheldrake says, and argues very poignantly against that, that the consciousness exists in morphogenic fields outside the body. Well, the physicists say "bunkum" to that. But, basically, in physics, post-quantum specifically is where you’ll in the state of the art research going on. It’s really far more advanced than drugs and LSD.

PROBE: Do you see any relationship between UFO abductions and mind control programs or experiments? If so, any thoughts as to why? Are there any criteria you can suggest to determine if a UFO abductee has become an unsolicited volunteer in a mind control game?

BOWART: There is a relationship. No question about it. But what that relationship is, we have to find out. Are they UFO’s? Are they aliens from another planet? Are they interdimensional? Now, the physicists I’ve talked to-and these are guys I like to listen to because a physicist says, "Okay, I have this theory, and if I can’t build this machine to prove it then I’ve got to change my theory," they have no problem with the concept of inner dimensions, of simultaneous realities. Of course, everybody wishes that there was this Star Trek sort of scenario where this advanced civilization would come and rescue us from ourselves, or from this national security state mentality anyway.

PROBE: Do you think then that there is anything to the idea that a good majority of alien abductions are part of some super-secret clandestine government operation to catalogue the population through implants? Surely it might be possible to perform a simple tagging procedure on a lone stretch of highway and then project into the abductees’ memory a mock encounter with an alien?

BOWART: Well, these implants are really obsolete. Of course, everybody is talking about them. Everybody’s saying, "I’ve got these implants." Where how them to me. Now there was the story that they put a chip in Prince William so they can track his whereabouts. He has the Merovingian bloodline that goes all the way back to Christ.

Let me end on a positive note. We are going through a transition and as we move from the old linear, "plumbing diagram" of reality to a new one, the earth is attaining obsolescence. The earth is already surrounded by a ring of all these little satellites tracking and observing and watching not just earth but " out there." Have you seen the latest photos from the Hubble? This stuff looks like biological material and it’s galaxies. It’s incredible and as it happens, the earth is becoming an obsolete planet. So everybody will begin collecting and preserving and restoring, be it building, and history in general. The beautiful thing about it is that we are evolving. We are already retribalizing. People are becoming more aware and proud of their culture and ethnicity and celebrating their diversities. I believe that there is this thing called the human spirit and whatever it is it’s intangible, it’s indestructible, it’s eternal and it will triumph over this tyranny that we have.