> # Cheryl Welsh on CNN

> ####

> From CNN's Web Site

> Also see CNN 6-18-97 Mind Control Coverage

> ### Edited transcript of interview with Cheryl Walsh,
> who alleges the government is manipulating
> her life with a mind control weapon

> David: How did this all start? What started happening in your life when this first started?

> Welsh: I was a re-entry student at UC-Davis, in 1988. And then in 1989, fall quarter, just a series of unusual events happened and I basically concluded would only be caused by the government because of the massiveness and the sophistication of them.

> David: Tell me what was going on in a typical day that let you know, that things were not entirely right.

> Welsh: I just had an unusual amount of problems with electrical equipment. For example, telephones. I would use payphones -- or my mother's phone -- they all would not work in the same way. I got clicks on my phone, wherever I would go. I would have vending machines, I would have washing machines at the laundromat. Things with my car not working, things with my car radio not working. TV's. Just an onslaught, really.

> David: But everybody has problems with electronics like that. Don't they?

> Welsh: I know what normal is and this was out of the ordinary. And other people could see this happening and it was in such a large amount that any normal person would take notice of it and say this is really strange.

> David: What else was going on? What was happening to you?

> Welsh: It is very hard to explain to people, for people to understand. I will give you an example of how I concluded that government experimentation may have been involved, or somebody was outside manipulating these things. I believe that the government has the technology to read your mind remotely. I came to that conclusion, besides a whole series of things, was everytime I smiled the telephone would ring. That would be one example of what they do. Very Pavlovian kinds of situations like that to where you could conclude that everytime you smiled, something like that happened in a highly significant amount. I also found that people were acting strangely. If I went to the grocery store, having twenty people being mean to you in one day you take notice. It did not happen in my normal life. Or have twenty people swearing, spitting, twenty people drop their keys. I knew something out of the ordinary was happening, it's very hard to explain.

> David: The big question in my mind is why you?

> Welsh: There is nothing out of the ordinary about myself. I lived a very ordinary life. I grew up in Sacramento. I was a receptionist for ten years at a medical office. I do not have any unusual talents or abilities. I'm not doing classified work. I don't work in physics or engineering that the government would be interested in. I think I was a warm body, just like the radiation victims who were at the wrong place at the wrong time when the government targetted them. That is what I think it is in my case.

> David: Everything that you are describing, if someone were skeptical, they would look at that list and say, well you just had a bad day.

> Welsh: Well, I talked this over with UC professor and we came to the conclusion that government experimentation could be a cause. My premise is that the government is developing weapons using the electromagnetic technology and their goal is to find the lethal dose of the plutonium vitamin pill.

> David: What has all this experience done with your personal relationships, with your friends, your family?

> Welsh: Well, right from the beginning I was saying something is going on and I would try to document it. When I did things with my sister or my mother or my friends I would point it out. I would try to document it. I bought a video camera to video tape the evidence. I had it analyzed by a statistics professor at UC-Davis and it came up to be highly statistically unusual. I hired private investigators, I tried to move out of the area to see if it would follow me.

> David: Did it?

> Welsh: It did, yes, it definitely did. I feel like I have really tried to eliminate the natural causes from the beginning. I just knew that it had to be something like government experimentation. There is just a body of evidence and, taken together, a logical person going through it would come to that conclusion.

> David: You have tried to tell people close to you that something is wrong. How do they react to you?

> Welsh: A few people like my professor at UC-Davis believed me and supported me and supported my efforts to document and stop the harassment. Most people just could not make that leap, that the government would have that sophisitcated a technology. That the government could keep mind control technology a secret, could read thoughts remotely.

> David: What are their conclusions about your situation?

> Welsh: Logically, that you are having mental problems. If you feel the government is after you that is just a classic symptom of mental illness. So, you have to be very careful about what you say and how you say it and if you say it to a mental health professional. They do not check out your facts, they come to their conclusions based on their DSM III, a diagnostic manual. If you say I think the government is after me and they read my brain remotely like a computer screen, you are not going to get the benefit of the doubt, they have a bias that you just cannot overcome.

> David: When this first started happening, did you think maybe it was something wrong with you?

> Welsh: No, these were outside occurences that were happening. I could video tape them and show other people. They have been documented at a highly high statistical amount. For example, all the telephones not working I would video tape that. For the statistical analysis, I video taped the high amount of red and white cars wherever I would go, which is a stretch of an imagination for people to believe that somebody could have manipulated that. But I had it statistically analyzed, by a statistics professor at UC-Davis. Two fifteen minute segments, and it showed, statistically, a high amount of red and white cars. That would never happen by chance, never. I have that tape and so I did not doubt my sanity. I just didn't, because I was able to document what was going. I'm an older person and I know myself, so that was not something that I felt I ruled out pretty logically.

> David: When you first started researching and asking questions, did you think this was only happening to you? At some time, did you think you were alone?

> Welsh: I knew that if they had that kind of technology, that I was one human guniea pig in a umbrella project that the goverment would be running.

> David: How many people out there do you suppose are being affected by this?

> Welsh: I was targetted about 1988 and didn't find another victim until 1993 and I looked extensively all that time.

> David: How was it that day that you found someone else in your situation . . .

> Welsh: It was just a great sense of relief when somebody on the other line had an organization and was able to say, that fits the government's experimentation. They have a whole history of behavior control experimentation. We believe that the government is now developing electro-magnetic technology, microwave harassment. I told her exactly what was going on and she said, classic case. So I fit the experiment protocol in my opinion. I think they are doing baseline studies out there and they are using us just as in the radiation experiments, only with new technology.

> David: That moment when you found somebody else, did you just want to get up and shout, "at last somebody believes me"?

> Welsh: I did, I went and told the university professor that has supported me for four or five years. I was in seventh heaven, that I found somebody else and that we proved what we believed back then but we didn't, we couldn't prove, you know, that it was in all probability, government experiementation and she did support me and didn't call me mentaly ill and it was just elation. It was just like, there is hope at the end of the tunnel. That there will be an end to this. Because it is very cruel, stress-producing type of experimentation that they do.

> David: You describe it as cruel. Tell me how you would describe cruel. I don't quite understand.

> Welsh: If you come from the premise that the government is developing a weapon with mind control technology, they are applying old psycological torture techniques. Isolation, physical pain, and I'm alledging that the government is developing mind control technology for behavior control. They are looking for the breaking point, they are looking how to control people and use it for political pursposes. It's psychological torture. With the high technology they are looking for the breaking point. What is the baseline to remotely control people when you want to get them to commit suicide or reveal secrets. There are so many intelligence uses you can use for it and these are just baseline studies.

> David: If you could sit across the table right now from the people who might be doing this to you, what would you say to them?

> Welsh: I really learned from the Nurenberg trials and the fact the most horrible experiments were conducted and they went to court and denied it. But it is happening now with the human rights trials in the third world countries. The Bosnian situation, where they are on trial for these horrible crimes and they don't admit it or in South Africa now, where they are having trials, for the atrocities there. It seems to be part of human nature, this cruelty. Some people are cruel and some people are not. I will never understand the philosophy that goes into somebody that would sign a national security oath and use people in experiments; like they did with the radiation victims. There is so much documentation that people are capable of that and that it is institutionalized. I think they should be locked up and pay for it and I'm sorry the radiation scientists have not gone to jail. They have not paid for the destruction of of life, they knew what they were doing. So, of course, I have nothing nice to say.

> David: How would you describe what they have done to you?

> Welsh: Total, one-hundred percent destruction of quality of life. I was starting out at UC-Davis. I had a future. I was really doing what I wanted to do and they just target all parameters of your life. Your career, your personal life, your finances. It is like an electronic prison basically. I would imagine saying that you have cancer and your life is going to be totally changed as a result of that. Totally diminished, I think they deserve to go to prison for what they do to people.

> David: What is your life like today?

> Welsh: I have engineered my life around the harassment as much as I can. I live a much diminished life. I bascially limit my activities to where I know where they are going to cause a lot of emotional pain, a lot of stress, I avoid it.

> Here is a really good example. You have a cigarette butt and you burn somebody, they can never get used to getting burned. It's going to hurt the same and it is the same on an emotional level. You cannot get used to emotional pain.

> David: How is your life less now than what it was before? In what way has it been diminished?

> Welsh: Well it is hard for people to understand and believe because who would believe the government would do it? But they will remind you that they can burn you all day long. Let us say I go to the library. They will make it a very harassing experience. They will have loud noises come from any electrical system they can target. So the computer's not going to work. When you go to take classes at school, you don't know if you are going to be able to use the computer. Or you don't know whether you are going to be able to do research for papers. Because they can sabotage computers. You don't know how you are going to get along with professors because they can make people hate your guts, they can make people fall in love with you. You just really have to understand that the technology is very sophisticated. It is a hard stretch of the imagination, I do not talk about it much because it's hard for people to understand. But if you could imagine that they have that type of control you will avoid most situations knowing they are looking to break you. They want you to commit suicide. They want you to be depressed. They want to see what makes people break.

> David: What do you avoid getting into that might be painful? Are you talking about personal relationships, or what?

> Welsh: I have networked with over eighty-five victims since 1993, and they all describe the same symptoms of [destroyed] relationaships. It is a very painful thing to have people that are close to you -- like my mother, my father, my sisters and friends -- those relationships be manipulated and destroyed. They did that very well, and they can do that so you want to avoid that kind of emotional pain.

> David: You actually avoid getting into personal relationships now?

> Welsh: Yes, you isolate your life, because they are painful and they make sure they are. If I go to a public library they will have people swear and spit. I used to love PE activities, I was a PE major. I can't do it because they engineer it so that it is harassive, where people swear and spit.

> David: But isn't this just life? Isn't this something that anybody would encounter?

> Welsh: I have done twenty-four hour video taping to document this and it is not life. It is statistically relevant. The government is not going to allow you to hands-down show what the technology can do, but with a closer look I think you will really find a smoking gun. It is hard to convey this and I can not show you the classified documents but I'm hoping that we will learn from the radiation experience when Hazel O'Leary declassified the documents and we found out what the victims were saying was true all along.

> David: How are you ever going to make someone believe you?

> Welsh: I believe that like the radiation experimentation and until those documents are declassified am I going to have the solid proof necessary. In the meantime, I'm looking for government signals. I'm doing everything I can within my limited means. I'm trying to organize as much as I can, but we are up against the U.S. government. A national security secret that if it were out would change the world. When you think mind control and being able to read somebody's thoughts remotely, what a difference that would make to the world. That is a weapon intelligence agencies have wanted that for decades.

> David: Why are they using it on people like you and not our enemies.

> Welsh: I think they are using it on our enemies. I have a few examples that need to be further investigated and documented and I have prisoners who are reporting its use.